Welcome to the Before You Market Podcast, where we invite marketing’s brightest minds to help you rethink how you approach your brand. On this episode, I had the pleasure of speaking with Lindsay, who comes highly recommended by none other than Katie Robbert—one of my favorite marketers and humans. With such an endorsement, my expectations were high (no pressure, Lindsay!), and I’m happy to say she delivered.
Lindsay is what I like to call a “brand whisperer.” Her philosophy aligns perfectly with ours at Brand3: the belief that a brand isn’t built on the latest algorithm, growth hack, or tech tool. Instead, it’s about rejecting shortcuts and embracing what truly matters—humanity, trust, and connection.
During our conversation, Lindsay shared insights that every brand, big or small, can benefit from. We explored why so many companies struggle to move past trends and tactics, the importance of trust in marketing, and how prioritizing authenticity can be both a strength and a potential risk. She also shed light on how brands can embrace human-centered marketing through podcasts, video content, and even AI.
If your marketing efforts feel stuck in busywork or disconnected from your audience, this episode is a must-read. Dive in to discover how to prioritize authenticity, build trust, and reconnect with what makes your brand human.
Marketing maven turned SaaS founder. First-time CEO; lifelong information junkie.
Passionate about authentic brand-building based on conversation, women in leadership, strong workplace cultures, and content marketing that prioritizes audiences over algorithms.
CEO and Co-Founder of @Casted, the first Amplified Marketing Platform and only podcast solution for B2B marketers.
Leader. Speaker. Marketer. Podcaster. Learner. Founder. And mom to three young boys including twins, which means I really can do anything. Try me.
Jon Bailey 00:01
Hi everybody. How are you doing? You doing all right? That's great. I would like to welcome you to the Before You Market podcast where we challenge you to rethink marketing. To help us in this endeavor, we've invited some of the best marketers in the business to enlighten you on your path towards a brand first awakening. Yes, that's what we're doing. I have never met Lindsay before today, so I am especially excited about this because I have no idea how what what to expect. So this could all go horribly wrong and which would be my fault. But that said, Lindsay comes highly recommended by Before You Market guests. Katie Robbert, who is let me, how do the kids do it? Yeah, love me some Katie. Katie's awesome. So I have high hopes. No pressure, but, Lindsay, please take a moment and introduce yourself to these wonderful people. See how I got away with not pronouncing the last name.
Lindsay Tjepkema 01:23
Yes, I've done such things before. It is Tjepkema, see you practice all the time, and then you weren't even gonna do it. Well, I'm Lindsay Tjepkema, and I am a marketer. You had me at, I mean, Katie, yes, I do whatever she tells me to do. But also, you had me at brand. You had me a brand. First, you had me at brand forward conversations, because that's my life. I've spent 20 years in B2B marketing, always on the brand content, thought leadership, storytelling side of things. I led a company actually helping marketers do that called Casted. It was a podcast and video marketing platform for B2B marketers, left that a few months ago and doubled down on actually getting one-to-one with marketing teams and founders to help them share their stories in ways that'll help them grow their businesses. And you have a prop with your shirt. I have a prop with my mug because I have a show called Actually, I Can. And we tell founder stories.
Jon Bailey 02:33
Oh, that's cool. That's great. Yeah, we'll put a link. We'll put a link in the show notes. So Lindsay is, you know, obviously, I think we've established that she's our kind of people here at Brand3, we think of her already as a kindred spirit, and she is what I like to call a brand whisperer. Whenever I call my boss a brand whisperer,
Lindsay Tjepkema 02:57
Adds to LinkedIn profile.
Jon Bailey 03:00
My boss. I always call her that, and then she goes, I love it. I get that reaction every time. We love talking brand clearly. So Lindsay, are you ready to get brand deep? Let's do this all right, awesome. So right square on the front page of your website, it says, and I'm going to read it, human brands are those that are brave enough to reject and purposefully forego the harmful belief that the latest algorithm, growth hack, tech tool, influencer or formula will be the easy button to success, isn't it easier to stop obsessing about these things? Why do you think more brands don't follow this path? I don't get it. What am I missing?
Lindsay Tjepkema 03:52
Fear and scarcity. I'll elaborate.
Jon Bailey 04:01
I was gonna let that marinate for a minute
Lindsay Tjepkema 04:02
Yes, please. Um, I mean, anyone. I mean it's November. I'm not gonna get political, because if you're a human being, regardless, regardless of what your beliefs are, it's a freaky, scary sphere and scarcity time, and we're all living in it all the time, but especially now and when fear and scarcity are present, especially when fear and scarcity are high, creativity safety goes away. Creativity goes away. The prioritizing human connection goes away. And when those things are gone, we're scrambling. We're all scrambling for how do I do this? How do I how do I find the results? How do I do what I do what I need to do? How do I make it happen? And that's when the fear-mongering comes in of like, oh, well, you just need this silver bullet. You just need to follow my framework. You just need to do this thing that I've already proven. Never mind that it benefits me to sell you this thing. So fear and scarcity you can see. You can see in our own lives. Personally, you can see in the world. But it absolutely it happens in marketing. It happens in B2B marketing and brand building all the time. If people, people get scared and they don't get in, the bravery and the courage to do something new goes out the window.
Jon Bailey 05:17
I agree 100% and I think that personally, I think that they should be more afraid of losing that human connection with their target audience and losing trust. And in a recent Forbes article, and she, Lindsay has got some wonderful articles on Forbes, I highly recommend. But in a recent Forbes article, you cited a PricewaterhouseCoopers stat that says 71% of consumers are apt to turn away from companies that lose their trust. Frankly, I'm surprised that, that number is not higher, but that's still pretty high. So even with things like, you know, Google E-E-A-T and everyone preaching trust, the importance of trust. You know, I worry that too many small businesses, too many small companies, miss that point when it comes to their marketing efforts, and so I would like to have you share your advice with them, to get them to rethink their approach as it relates to building trust, because I think this is one of the most important things in marketing that's being often overlooked
Lindsay Tjepkema 06:28
In marketing. And actually, dare I say in business in general.
Jon Bailey 06:32
I mean you dare, and I dare.
Lindsay Tjepkema 06:34
I do dare, so it can again, I'm gonna say the word fear so much, because that's what it all comes down to. It's your fear of not hitting your numbers, fear of missing payroll, real fears. I get it. I've not only led marketing, I've led a business. I've led multiple businesses. Like fear is real, and so we turn we look short term, we look at the right. Now, how am I going to generate leads now? How am I going to build a pipeline now? How am I going to convert customers now? And that's when you that's when the follow this process by this tool, hire this person, bring in this consultant, do this thing to generate results right now. Gets really, really tempting. It's very, very appealing because it feels like this is just what I need, right? And so you get you short sighted. But like you said, that often comes, that comes at a cost, and that cost is usually the long term vision, like one thing I talk about is, is what, what do the decisions that you make now due to your brand equity, your relationship equity, over time, how is it going to impact how the people who want to trust you today will or will not trust you tomorrow? How does it affect your positioning in the market and how people feel about your brand tomorrow three years from now, five years from now, if you, you know, borrow that equity, that long term equity, to maybe get a payoff today. What's that going to do? And I think it's, again, it's that courage to rise above the fear and the scarcity and to believe that, you know, the long term way of thinking is truly what's not only going to make you get through today, but survive in the long run.
Jon Bailey 08:23
Can you talk a little bit more about brand equity? Because I feel like maybe a lot of business owners out there marketers should understand what that term means, but I feel like that's a term that that marketers throw around, but that maybe business owners don't quite understand, and it's it's an important concept to to embrace and understand. So I wonder if you could maybe, kind of like, talk about it from from a lay person's standpoint.
Lindsay Tjepkema 08:48
Yeah, I think to me, in short, it's long term thinking as it relates to your brand and the, you know, shiny object syndrome. What are, you know, competitors doing this? Are competitors on TikTok? And did you see that they're doing these YouTube shorts? And should we do an offer? Should we drop our pricing? Like, should we partner with these people? Like all of these, should we? Should we should thinking short term again, kind of everything I just talked about, it's like sure that might feel good today if it solves a problem today. But when we talk about brand equity, it's, again, it's just thinking long-term is, is how? How does this get us closer to or farther from where we're trying to be 10 years from now? And exercises that I like to do in person, like when I'm speaking, because I have so imagine, if you will, like that, we're in the same room, and I'm like, okay, Jon, stand next to me and take a step in any direction, like, go ahead and do that. And you either. And it's okay do that again. I. And you do that a couple times, and you acknowledge the fact that you're either getting closer to or farther from me, right? There is no way to be neutral if you're moving in any direction you're either getting closer to or farther from something. And so every single decision you make, every blog post, every you know, Tik Tok post, every price change, everything you do, gets you closer to or farther from that brand that you're trying to be and that human-centeredness that you're trying to achieve long term.
Jon Bailey 10:35
I love that that is such a great exercise, and I'm totally gonna steal it, and I may or may not give you credit for it. It just depends on how, whether or not I feel like it.
Lindsay Tjepkema 10:49
Like how the rest of this interview goes.
Jon Bailey 10:51
No, no I was thinking more in terms of the last name.
Lindsay Tjepkema 10:56
I'm totally okay with just being known as Lindsay, Lindsay Tjepkema.
Jon Bailey 11:00
You got it in that same Forbes article. You give some great advice regarding the content you create for a drip campaign, and you say, to write like you talk, which I love, I love this advice. And I think it's far too easy for brands to get lost in the tech and forget about being human. So, you know, obviously you agree. But I wonder, how should brands prioritize leading with their humanity instead of tools and tactics when they're faced with all this like tech decision that they have to make and drip campaigns and automation.
Lindsay Tjepkema 11:42
So, you have to take a hot second. You have to and this is it keeps coming back to this. Don't let fear and scarcity consume you like you have to at least create some sense of safety so that you can hold space for thinking, for strategy, for creativity. And so you have to think about, okay, who is this for? And why are we doing it right? When you know who you're speaking to, and you know what you're trying to achieve, then you can say, okay, well, and then who are we? Like, who are we in this process? Like, you have to, you have to know things that so often we as marketers are like, I'm too busy to think about values and mission, vision, values. Those are just things that people put in a poster on the wall. Yeah, if you're doing it wrong, if you're doing it right, it should be fueling everything you do. And if you are a brand marketer, if you are doing any sort of brand anything for your company, you should have, yes, you should have them on your wall, because you should be reminding yourself daily. Who this is for, why you're doing it, why the heck they should be listening to you and not someone else? And so to get specifically to your question, brand voice. How do you do it? Why does it matter if you if you know who you are, then you're very clear when you come across, when you're speaking to the people that that you're trying to reach, and then you're not speaking in TikTok voice on Tiktok, and, like, I don't know, some corporate speak on LinkedIn, and you're not being a chameleon. You're are authentically showing up as yourself, and you're upholding the values of your brand because they matter. And you're portraying accurately the vision and the differentiators. And that's when we get into some of the like, you know, value props and like, brand positioning and key differentiators. That's where those come from, is, is who you actually are as a business and what you believe in, like, those things really, really do matter. And when you are, like, securely founded on what those things are for your business, then, like, your voice, regardless of the channel, it comes a lot more naturally.
Jon Bailey 13:54
Yeah, it's funny. As you're talking, I'm thinking about so a friend of mine. Amber Naslund was also a guest on the podcast, and we talked about B2B content and why it really doesn't have to be boring. And I'm sitting here thinking, Yes, that's exactly what you're talking about. And if you do those things, if you focus on those things you just discussed, it's almost the antidote to boring. B to B content. You know what I mean,
Lindsay Tjepkema 14:19
It's, you know, BDB content is not boring. You're boring, Like, I used to work for an anti-microbial detection company for that made antimicrobial connection or detection machines for, like, consumer goods. It's pretty boring. But when you're able to again, who is this for? Why are we doing it? We could tell the stories of, like, contamination events and how that impacted people, and how that made people lose jobs and lawsuits, and like, how those all could have been avoided. Like, there's always a story. There's always a story. Always.
Jon Bailey 14:58
Yep, love it. Love. It. Now, you mentioned, you know, you know, we talked about B2B content. And you know, you've often stated that that podcast and video content are two of the best ways to connect with your audiences on a on a human level. And you know, I might be paraphrasing that a bit, but I think that's a general sentiment. But what do you think is the future of these mediums? And I hate to do it, but AI, what do you see? What role do you see AI playing in, you know, in this type of content, for better, for worse?
Lindsay Tjepkema 15:37
Yeah, so podcast and video, which is kind of becoming synonymous now, doing both,
Jon Bailey 15:45
Like, no this one
Lindsay Tjepkema 15:47
Like this one, right? Capture both, use them in both places. I think it's obvious, like, Where would I think they go? They're going. I've been saying for the last six or seven years now that they're the future of of B2B marketing and of brand building, and I think that that's that we're seeing it now, and I don't think that's going to change. It's just going to become even more so I think that what role like, why and what role do, does AI play? Okay, so podcast and video, video in general, helps us achieve human connection in mass, right at scale, we have a conversation. We get to be silly and goofy and share our strong opinions, or, you know. And the show that I'm doing is telling founder stories in a way that sometimes is really vulnerable and is very can get really personal and personal professional, and we get to do that. We get to have these conversations and use them in a way that's really human to connect with other people and build relationships at scale, which is great, and it's what we're trying to do for business. It's what we're trying, how we're trying to build that connective tissue between our brands and our audiences, all good things.
If you're not doing it yet, do it where AI fits in. There's there are all going to be there already. Are the people and the brands that are like, I can use AI to do it instead. And I don't know what the goal is of these individuals like, are they literally trying to sit like in a like, room full of monitors, like sipping coffee? Are they trying to be like Homer Simpson just literally watching this? I don't, I don't know. That's not what I want to do with my life. I want to do more of this. So there's sure, there's going to be people who mess it up for the rest of us, but where, where I'm excited about AI and where I'm I'm using AI. And if anybody looks at any of the content that I've produced about AI, over the last couple years, I've been the holdout and the skeptic, because I'm like, do not use AI to do it for you. Do not use AI to replace your creativity. Like, use it to help you be more creative. And I think that there's we're already seeing such really cool opportunities to help with scheduling and with making interviews like these possible, and helping to make suggestions about the clips that we should pull and about like, okay, I want to use this interview and all these different ways help me make that happen. Propose topic ideas that maybe we should talk through, do the research on the interview, on the interviewee, so that I can, you know, save a little bit of time there and spend my time conversing with this person, not scouring the interwebs like AI has such a strong place in supporting the creation of really cool, really relevant content, and helping people like you and me, who are brand obsessed, do more and get a lot more creative. And I just really, really hope that we see people doing that, because that'll be neat.
Jon Bailey 18:57
I agree. I agree, and I also think, I see it as an opportunity, because, you know, hey, let my competitors go off and use AI to replace their humanity. And the audience is going to look at that and go, Well, that's real, and that's not, I'm gonna go with real.
Lindsay Tjepkema 19:20
That's true. That's the differentiator. Like, it's you, hi, you're the differentiator. It's you. It's if you just stay human. It's you.
on Bailey 19:33
Amen, yes, agreed 100% and so we have, I have one last question, and it is from our fearless leader and our resident brand whisperer. Orshie Herbein, who I love to death, and or she asks, I wonder if there is a risk in being too authentic. Can a brand undermine itself by pursuing authenticity too aggressively or inappropriately, are there any boundaries we should explore when it comes to authenticity? I think she just wanted to force me to say authenticity twice,
Lindsay Tjepkema 20:10
Yes, yes. 100% like my best friend, Brene Brown, she doesn't know that I exist, but we are best friends. She talks all the time about authenticity, obviously, and talks about that too, and vulnerability, like there. Yes, you absolutely can. I mean as as the face of your company. If you go out in front of everyone and say, we're about to close. We're almost out of money. I don't know what I'm doing, and I'm completely overwhelmed. And advice is welcome, like, don't do that. That's helpful to anybody, but when you I mean one thing that I like to do is, is talk to the brand leader, talk to the founder, understand their why. Like, why? Why are you here? Why did you start the company? Why are you leading this brand? And then really understand the why of the company. Like, why does it exist? Again, who's it for? Why are you doing it?
And pull at some of those threads that sometimes seem auxiliary, that kind of seem out in the corner and and tie in the the humanness of like, there's, there's a person that I work with, um, who's running like a virtual EA company, right? And she's female founder. And in addition to all these areas of expertise that she's really strong, and she's also really, she's a mom of three boys, just like me, and she's really into health and fitness, and she's a big traveler, and so she's like, but I don't think that those things really are relevant. I was like, they absolutely are. You're running a virtual EA company, you're really into traveling, you have three kids, you're a female founder, you're into health and fitness. All of those things are made possible for other people to like other people can lean into those areas of life because you're enabling them through virtual EAS to be able to, like, lean into their health and take care of themselves and be, you know, a more involved parent, and travel the world. She was like, yeah. So it's it's weaving in those stories. That's authenticity. It's sharing a broader picture of more human, picture of the why it's not being vulnerable for vulnerable sake. Don't think of it as like going out and asking for a cry for help, but to say, hey, we're human. This is why our brand exists. This is why the business exists to serve other people. And this is, this is kind of a peak behind the curtain as to why.
Jon Bailey 22:49
Yeah, I love that. I think focusing on the why, instead of the extreme, what is really great advice. So, yeah, that's, that's fantastic. You know, I think we did okay. I think, you know, all in all, I managed not to completely screw this up and let your brilliance shine through. So I really appreciate you coming on here, everybody. If you want more from Lindsay, go to LindsayTjepkema.com right? Isn't that the yeah? Great stuff on there. She writes on Forbes. As I said, any any final thoughts, any final things you want to promote, anything else you'd like to say to these good people?
Lindsay Tjepkema 23:37
Brand matters, and actually, you can hold space for creativity. And if you want to hear more, come on over to the website and watch the show. Love it.
Jon Bailey 23:50
Love it. Thank you so much. Everyone. Stay safe and sane out there and have a great day and bye.
